This chapter is a bit unusual. I’ve tacked it from the point of view of a side branch of the family. In Bury St Edmunds lived a matriarch – a foundress of a family of her own – Francis May Bray. I’ve looked at the story from her point of view. But don’t worry – I will cover our Gunschmann’s starting with Frederick in Germany in the early 1800′s – it’s all in here!

The Bray’s

Frances May Bray (1890 – 1968)

This I think is the best place to start. After all it is Frances’ surname! Frances was born 7th May 1890 in Bury St Edmunds. Her parents were Sidney and Caroline (Rosier). Sidney was an agricultural labourer in Bury St Edmunds and he married his wife in 1884. Frances was the 3rd of 6 children (that I have found so far). Bertie, Sarah, Frances, Harriet, Ellen and Sidney.

She was born at 16 Vine Fields, Bury and in 1901 they had moved to 10 Vine Fields. Interestingly enough at the same time in the 1901 census the Proctor family lived at number 8. The Proctors of course feature highly in the story to follow.

There are a few stories about Frances and they indicate she was a kind woman – “Aunt Fanny never had a cross word.”  The following stories give an idea what she was like. Apparently she liked – no loved – fireworks. One time she took great delight at setting off a roman candle in the living room. She was standing there going “whee” when Aunt Lil came in and said that the ceiling was on fire. She did not care, she was just enjoying the show! She used to cook on an open range and when dinner was served she used to sit on one side of a big oval table and her husband on the other. The children sat round in descending height order. One of her grandchildren remembers eating dinner with a knife that had almost no blade as it had been ground down so much !

They had a hard time around the war years. There are memories of potato picking in the war and amusing stories about the German POW’s who also used to pick potatoes there. But Frances disapproved of them mixing and did not like it when the POWs gave out a toy they had carved. It was based on a wooden tennis racket with two chickens on it. The chickens pecked when the racket was spun around. “You don’t know where that’s been” she said!

She used to go down to the town with Edna (her daughter) and she could not wait to get past the infirmary where she would duck round a corner and take a big pinch of snuff until she started sneezing. She used to love snuff and her hankie was always brown from the stuff.

When the children were hungry she would give them bread and butter and sugar. This was a real treat to them. Francis used to look after them when they were very young and I have heard of one of the grandchildren walking to her house at the age of 4 and not being able to get in because she was not there. He stood on the doorstep crying until she came home.

The final story gives a real picture of her. She used to keep tiny chicks in a cardboard box in the living room fire. The kids used to play with them and let them out the box. When she came back into the room she would sweep them all up and put them back into the box. She always had dogs and sometimes cats as well as the chickens. There was a dog called Lionel who used to sleep in a barrel and the children used to love to climb in and sleep with him. One day the barrel got knocked over and rolled away. Lionel got out but the child was knocked around in the rolling barrel!

It’s worth spending a little time talking about the Bray ancestors before we come to the descendants. It gives a little “colour” to the family!

Sidney Bray(1866 – 1914)

Sidney is reasonably easy to research. He was born in 1866 and died in 1914. In 1881 he lived in 18 Vine Fields with his mother Harriet who’s job was a Charwoman. His father John had died by this time. The Rosiers lived next door at number 17. Going back to the previous census in 1871 Sidney lived at 4 Pelican Court, Bury.

When we get to his father we start to get complicated. John Bray (1818 to 1879) Frances’ grandfather, married twice. In 1840 he married Emily Bullock. They had 5 children. Emily died in 1858. John then married Harriet Crack. She had already had two children out of wedlock (although there are strong suspicions that John was the father!) Finally in 1866 they had one legitimate son – our Sidney. The reason for thinking that Harriet’s children were fathered by John is that on the 1861 census the family is listed as John as head, Emily his wife, their 2 younger children, but also George and Catherine Crack, listed as son and daughter respectively to John. Interestingly enough Harriet is the family’s housekeeper. So one can speculate on a strange household with John having two “wives” fathering children by both of them and all three (John and the two ladies) living happily together.

John was born in Barton, Suffolk and was an agricultural labourer. As far back as 1841 he is listed as living in Bury, so one can speculate he moved there young. His first wife Emily was born in Bury.

Not much information exists about John’s parents. But their names were William Bray and Elizabeth Alderton and they were married on 13th January 1818 in Fornham Saint Martin, Suffolk. Interestingly enough John was christened on 6 September 1818. I will leave you to do the maths! And just to complicate the possible family tree, Catherine Crack (John’s illegitimate daughter) herself had an illegitimate child, then married Edward Boor and finally married John Charles Proctor –he is distantly related to our Proctors!

Caroline Rosier (1861 – 1944)

Frances’ mum – Caroline Rosier was born in Bury St Edmunds in 1861. Her parents – William Rosier born 1826 in Culford, Suffolk who was an agricultural labourer and Mary Ann Cracknell born in 1832 in Banham, Norfolk. They were a typical large Victorian family with at least 8 children, the first two born in Norfolk and the rest in Bury St Edmunds. Two (at least) died as infants. In the 1881 census Caroline was living at 17 Vine Fields with her mother. Caroline was a tailoress and her mother a Laundress. However, going back another 10 years to 1871, Caroline, her mum and 4 other brothers and sisters were in the Thingoe Union Workhouse in Mill Lane. This did not bode well! But they do seem to have come through this difficult time. There is no trace of Caroline’s Dad, but her mother is still marked as married and not widowed. We can make many guesses as to why Caroline’s dad was absent. Possibly he had died and this forced the family into the workhouse, but that would not explain why Mary Ann was still marked as married. A more colourful explanation would be that he was in prison. In fact in the 1881 census there is a William Rosier in Norwich gaol. However the fine detail does not fit with our William. A final explanation would be that he had been deported.

Apparently Caroline used to smoke a pipe and wear a man’s cap. She had a jackdaw that used to sit on her shoulder. One day a man killed the jackdaw (the story does not say why) and Caroline beat the man up! Rita and Ron (her grandchildren) used to think she was a witch. They used to visit her and she would leave them in one room and go in another. In the room where they were there was a tin of biscuits and if they even looked at them Caroline would call out “Don’t even think about it! “ and so because she could see through walls the children thought she was a witch. Who knows! Anyway she was obviously quite a tough lady as we can guess from the picture! One great memory of Caroline goes as follows. “Nanna Gunsman used to keep a silver coloured teapot on the big black range, this teapot used to stew the tea and it came out like black treacle, it’s no wonder I never and still don’t drink tea.  I remember going up there on Sundays and as most people would state, Sundays in those days used to last forever. “

But let’s get back to Frances shall we? There was a stuffed fish in a glass case above the mantelpiece in Frances’ best room (parlor or front room) one side of the fish there was a picture of one child as a baby and on the other side there was a picture of another. They must have been taken by the same photographer as they were laying on a type of furry rug, on their tummies WITH NO CLOTHES ON!!

Thomas Victor Bray (1909 – 1980)

Frances first recorded child was Thomas. He was born 17 May 1909 in Bury. He died in 1980. He has no father listed on his birth certificate and that ties up with his name being Bray. Thomas married Ella Cawston and was a builder. Ella and Tom Bray lived in the cottages by Eastgate Infants School which was The Vine Fields. They had a welcome home party for Charles Proctor (see below) at their house after the war and when it was time to go home his daughter would not go if “he” was going – so she stayed there!! It took her a long time to get used to him as she was a baby when he was captured and at school when he came home. Later they (Tom and Ella) had a prefab past the railway bridge in Eastgate Street, nearly opposite “The Suffolk Hunt”. They then moved to Mustow Street. When one of the nieces was a little girl, Ella used to put her up to bed and for about an hour she used to keep calling out “I’m now going to sleep, so night night” She just kept repeating the same words all the time.” Thomas and Ella had 4 children.

Apparently Tom was a small man and kept an allotment. This was VERY neat and kept beautifully raked. Never a stone or weed to be seen!

Charles William Proctor Bray(1913 – 1968)

Frances second child was Charles William known as Bill. Now the fact he was a Bray surprised some of the family. In fact when he was born Frances was not married. His birth certificate quite clearly shows his Christian names being Charles William Proctor, his surname as Bray and lists no father. However this time there is little doubt it is Ernest Proctor. I will say more about Ernest in the next chapter. Bill was born 4th March 1913 in 12 Vine Fields, Bury. He died on 8th May 1968 of lung cancer.

I have been told one story of his boyhood and this is to represent how much of a “lad” he was. At harvest festival time he hollowed out the harvest festival marrow and put two mice inside. He then plugged the hole back up and put the marrow in the church. Of course the mice ate their way out and you can imagine the chaos that followed in the church! Naughty Bill ! He was a bit of a ladies man from what I have heard. He was sweet on Ivy Austin (one of Edward Gunschmann’s daughters) and that got him into trouble. When he was in India he had an affair with a lady called Anna and had her name tattooed on his chest. This did not go down too well with his later wife.

He was very good at sport and won several medals in the Army. These were mounted on a shield which his daughter used to clean. However what happened to this shield is lost in the mists of time. Bill had a really rough time later in the 2nd World War. He was captured by the Japanese working on the Burma railway and became a prisoner of war. He had a terrible time during this period, and there are several horrific stories I have been told which I will not relate here but leave to your imagination. When he got back he used to sit by the fire and shake from the Malaria he had contracted. He was in a bad state when he came back – weighing around 4 stone and one of the first things he did when he came back was to go to the dentist and have his last 4 teeth removed. From the war he went to Roehampton to convalesce. While there his wife sent him down some sugar as this was rationed and he fancied some. However shortly after he “escaped” from the hospital and came home. His wife was merely upset she had wasted the sugar! Poor fellow.

After that he became a postman, but because he had trouble sleeping he would frequently start his collection round too early and people would miss the last post. As a result of this he lost his job. Then he went on the work in a timber yard and his wife became caretaker of a bank. The family lived in the second floor of the bank and there was an antique auction business in the middle. Because of the businesses their daughter had to play silently in their flat. However Bill taught her to climb up from street level and she could also get onto a flat roof and play there. One day a toy went onto another roof and she tried to climb over. However her skirt billowed in the wind and she slipped and got caught on some railings. She had to be rescued by the man from Whipp’s – the fresh fish shop next door. It’s amazing what we remember!

Bill taught his daughter to shoot pheasants with a catapult and later to shoot a 12 bore shotgun. He used to poach to make up the family food ration. Apparently he used to regularly set fire to his bed as he would smoke and fall asleep with a lit cigarette.

Just to finish on Frances, she died on the 31st January 1968, having outlived both her husbands. She died of stomach cancer and her death was certified by Ella Bray (her daughter in law) at the grand age of 77. In this time she had given birth to 10 children, who now have lead to a family numbering over 100. Quite a lady and a family well worth celebrating. And one last mystery. I have been told Frances had “WP” tattooed on her wrist or fingers.

Now on to the second part of this saga – the Proctor’s – and be sure there is plenty of scandal here!

The Proctor’s

Ernest William Proctor (1893 – 1917)

On 1st November 1913 Frances married Ernest William Proctor in the Registry Office at Bury St Edmunds. There is little need to speculate why the marriage was in this Registry Office. I have traced Ernest’s family back to a Robert Proctor born about 1790 and have the generations in between. There is one interesting fact about Ernest (and it stands true to form). His birth name was Ernest William Proctor Buckle, since his father (William Charles Proctor) and his mother (Agnes Buckle) married in 1894 and Ernest was born in 1893.

William (the father) was a Railway Goods Carman. Ernest was a labourer on his marriage certificate to Frances. Frances at this time was listed as a domestic servant. After all her mother had been a charwoman. Her address on the marriage certificate was 12 Vine Fields and Ernest was living at 7 High Baxter Street.

In the First World War, Ernest served in the 2nd Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment. He was awarded the British medal and the Victory medal. Alas he was killed in France and is mentioned on the Arras memorial. I have this information on his Commonwealth War Graves Commission memorial:

Name: PROCTOR, ERNEST WILLIAM
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Suffolk Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 11/04/1917
Service No: 40923
Additional information: Husband of Frances May Proctor, of 5, Vine Fields, Eastgate St., Bury St. Edmund’s.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 4.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

The French handed over Arras to Commonwealth forces in the spring of 1916 and the system of tunnels upon which the town is built were used and developed in preparation for the major offensive planned for April 1917. The Commonwealth section of the FAUBOURG D’AMIENS CEMETERY was begun in March 1916, behind the French military cemetery established earlier. It continued to be used by field ambulances and fighting units until November 1918. The cemetery was enlarged after the Armistice when graves were brought in from the battlefields and from two smaller cemeteries in the vicinity. The cemetery contains 2,651 Commonwealth burials of the First World War. In addition, there are 30 war graves of other nationalities, most of them German. The graves in the French military cemetery were removed after the First World War to other burial grounds and the land they had occupied was used for the construction of the Arras Memorial and Arras Flying Services Memorial. The ARRAS MEMORIAL commemorates almost 35,000 servicemen from the United Kingdom, South Africa and New Zealand who died in the Arras sector between the spring of 1916 and 7 August 1918, the eve of the Advance to Victory, and have no known grave. The most conspicuous events of this period were the Arras offensive of April-May 1917, and the German attack in the spring of 1918.

Edna Grace Proctor (1914 – 1980)

So this brings us to the children of Frances and Ernest. There is one definite and one “attributed”. Edna was born on 4th October 1914.

Edna was a bus conductress. Later on she worked for the Cosy Corner Café with Violet Austin (more on her later). One story tells of a time when Violet and Edna worked and lived together. In the time of butter rationing a large block of butter was delivered to the restaurant. Violet took half a pound off the block and took it home. Unbeknown to her so did Edna. When they found they had taken a pound between them they were very worried that they would be caught. However they spear to have got away with it! Later on Edna worked for Marks and Spencer.

She married Reginald Wade in 1940 and they had 2 children.

Sidney William Proctor(1918 – 1996)

The second child of Frances and Ernest was said to be Sidney. He was born on 18 Jan 1918 at 5 Vine Fields (another address in this street). However bearing in mind his “father” died on 11 Apr 1917 in France, it makes it extremely unlikely if not actually impossible that Ernest was his father. Sidney married Molly Turner in 1939 and they also had 2 children. He died in April 1996 in Bury St Edmunds.

I have heard that he was unlike the others. Most of the others were dark haired and dark skinned – they tanned easily. Sidney on the other hand was fair haired and had a light complexion. This would be explained by his different fatherhood. Having cast doubts on the father of Sidney we could speculate that in fact it was our next husband of Frances and that would be Henry Gunschmann. But in fact I know through two of the current grandchildren I have spoken to that in fact it was neither of them. Apparently Frances told Sidney at one point who it was but he never passed this information on to anyone and the real name of his father has died with him.

The Gunschmann’s

This is the part of the story I know most about. As this is my direct family (ancestors and cousins) I have done much research on this. I will start by talking about the Gunschmann’s and see where we meander from there. It does however give you an idea of what history can be found if enough digging is done. We will in due course come to Frances Bray (or Proctor as she was by now) and I will show you where she links into my personal family story. This is an interesting family and as I have already said ALL the Gunschmann’s and Gunsman’s in the UK. come from Frederick. So anyone with that name belongs to us!

Frederick Gunschmann (also known as Friedrich) was born in Germany in c1803. The most likely place would be Hessen. His father was also Frederick. He was by profession a gardener. Little is known about him. He must have come to England in the early 1830’s. Maybe he arrived in London and walked to Liverpool (as many German’s did), looking for passage to America. Perhaps when he got to Liverpool, he did not have the money or the will to continue. We will probably never know.

However the story starts in Liverpool. His first son was born there in 1835 and baptised at The Parish Church of Saint Peter, Liverpool on 25th September 1835. This was Jacob William Martin, frequently known as William. They lived in the poor areas of Liverpool around Toxteth Park very close to the Mersey. On 5th September 1837 Frederick married Jacob’s mother – Margaret Walter – at Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne, frequently referred to as the sailor’s church.

Their second son, Henry, was born on 17th March 1838 at Parry Street, Toxteth Park and baptised on 2nd April 1838 at St Peter’s Church, Liverpool.

From there the story takes a sad turn. Frederick died on 20th April 1839 in the workhouse in Liverpool. The cause of death is “fever”. The fact it was in the workhouse may not imply their status as paupers, but it gives a clue – it may have been due to the fact the workhouse had an infirmary. Their second son Henry died on 6th September 1840 in Liverpool from convulsions, and Margaret must have made the decision to travel to London with Jacob, where she married Bernard Mocker on 18th April 1841 – just seven months later. It’s interesting to note that the registrant for Henry’s death is a lady called Margaret Bates. Margaret Walter could not write (or at least sign her name) and there is doubt that she could speak English, so the fact the death was registered by someone else is not unusual. However Margaret Bates lived in a house with three musicians. Now Jacob went on to be a musician all his life, and it is probably valid speculation that he picked up his trade from the musical house of Margaret Bates. One can imagine a child of 5, who lost his father a year earlier and now has lost his younger brother, learning skills that will serve him for his lifetime. It’s perfectly possible he earned some pennies playing in the streets to help support his mother.

Jacob William Martin Gunschmann (1835-1882).

In contrast to his father, Jacob seems to have had a better life. First trace of him according to the 1841 census is in Whitechapel (under the name of Jacob Mueger) living with Bernard and Margaret (Mocker). In the census of 1851 he is still living with them, and marked as “step son”. This time however he’s listed under his actual name Gunschmann and at 15 is recorded as a musician. In 1861 he’s in Cambridge and by now he’s married and still a musician. In a parallel to the house of Margaret Bates, his abode in Cambridge is filled with musicians! In 1871 and 1881 he’s back in Whitechapel and he died in 1882. His wife was Mary Ann Ashton born in 1836 and daughter of a watch maker – a skilled profession in those days. She died in Whitechapel in 1909. He had a large family of 12 children as follows:

• William Arthur Gunschmann (1859-1890)
• Frederick Gunschmann (1860-1892)
• Mary Ann Margaret Gunschmann (1862-1864)
• Edward Gunschmann (1864-1917)
• Margaret Sophia Gunschmann, born (1866-1903)
• Jacob Bernard Gunschmann (1868-1869)
• Jacob Gunschmann, (1870-1879)
• Mary Ann Gunschmann (1872-?)
• Alfred Gunschmann (1875-1935)
• Henry Gunschmann (1877-1916)
• Catharina Gunschmann (1879-1941)
• Ann Gunschmann (1880-1881)

As you can see, most of the 12 children died young or did not marry so the family does not “explode” in numbers as many Victorian families seem to. However those that lived through infancy would appear to have done well for themselves.

William Gunschmann (1859-1890) is unremarkable and did not marry or have children. One reason for this might be the fact that on the 1881 census he is in the St Georges District Workhouse Infirmary, Princes Street, marked as an imbecile. He died in 1890 in Watford at the Leavesden Asylum of epilepsy and Phthises (a form of tuberculosis).  This asylum was for poor people from the North of London to “keep them out of the way” of “normal” people.

Frederick Gunschmann (1860-1892) – married Clara Müller Bambridge. She herself was born of unmarried parents – Joseph Müller and Ellen Bambridge, hence her name. They had one son, Frederick born 1881. He does not appear to have had children himself. He died in Littlehampton, and by profession he was a traveling musician. Obviously taking after his father.

Edward Gunschmann (1864-1917) married Mary Anne Nunn (born 1866 in Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk) in 1888 in Bethnal Green. He was a tinsmith by profession according to censuses, on his marriage certificate (1888) he was a confectioner and later he went into the Merchant Navy. One of the stories tells of him walking around with a parrot on his shoulder! He could play any musical instrument that was put in front of him – obviously the talent ran in the family! He had 9 children and “founded” the Bury St Edmunds “Gunsman” line though his son Henry Alfred (known as Harry). Of his nine children, six died in infancy, including a pair of twins. They all seem to have died of malnourishment as the family was extremely poor. In fact they were so poor the last son James, was born in 1905 in the Mile End Workhouse. To give a measure to the level of poverty the family suffered, the twins born in 1904 died at 4 and 7 weeks of age of tuberculosis. They were admitted to the Infants Hospital in Hampstead where they were the subject of study into infantile diseases. This facility was “a centre for the treatment of infantile diseases, for the study of all the factors connected with the rearing of a strong people, and the prevention of the conditions responsible for the prevalence of tuberculosis and from physical imperfections endangering the national health.” Even this hospital failed to keep them alive. James (1905) died at the age of 3 months of endemic syphilis, caused by the lack of hygiene in the house. I will say more about the poverty of this family later. Of the three who survived to adulthood, one we will study later – this is Harry who went on to marry Frances. The other two were girls.

Ellen Trissy was born in Whitechapel and married Samuel Austin. When they got married, Samuel (who was a landau driver at the time) took his landau and drove Ellen to the registry office. However this was not the best thing to do as he did not have permission to borrow the carriage and was sacked when he got back. They had 5 children – 3 girls and 2 boys. Ivy (1912), Lily (1914), then a 7 year gap and William (Bill)(1921) Godfrey (Bubbles)(1923) and a daughter (1925) who is still alive.

But going back to Ellen as a child, she was very much the “mother” to the other children as the oldest child and had the job of looking after them. However food was so short that she used to eat some of it and not feed he babies. As a result of this only the strongest of them survived. One last story about Ellen. In the war they decided not to evacuate the children, but the girls and mother went to Bury and lived at 58 Perry Road with Frances. They were only there a few months and while they were there the two sons (Bubbles and Bill) stayed at home in Clacton. Ellen sent some money home for housekeeping but the boys lived on cheap corned beef and beer and had a high time with the housekeeping! Apparently Bubbles bought a suit. But when Ellen came back she soon put a stop to all that.

The other daughter was Eva. She was born in 1902 and had three children.

Edward was apparently a bit of a rogue! He used to take the ends off silver plated tea spoons and with a set of dies, punch out “sixpences”. They would go into local shops, and spend a penny’s worth and get 5 good pennies change. Eventually he got caught for this and ended up in Brixton prison. They had a room in Whitechapel which the rented for half a crown a week. This was always a strain on the family finances and when rent day came the Jewish landlady would follow them around listening and looking to see if they had money. Edward and Mary Ann both drank heavily and the family had a really rough, extremely poor time. It was a very difficult period. To give an idea of how poor they were, Ellen would collect stones out of a field. For a day’s work she would be paid tuppence. When she got home her mother would take the money for porter. If her father found out about this he would beat her for giving the money to her mother. Another story tells of the family (at that time the parents and three children) on a good day getting a halfpenny kipper for tea. While it was cooking Edward would drink and fall asleep. When the kipper was cooked the family ate it, but they wiped the juice around Edward’s lips. When he woke up he asked where tea was, and the family said “You’ve eaten it – just lick your lips and see!”

The 1901 census has him living in Erith (probably in connection with the Merchant Seaman job) but says he was born in Bury which is not correct. The connection to Bury and hence where the family now resides is through his wife, Mary Ann. I have heard that the Nunn’s (Mary Ann’s family) were wealthy shop owners in Bury, but they did not share their money with Mary Ann, hence the problems the family had. Edward died in 1917 in Bury St Edmunds. The story goes that during the war he used to shelter in the cold pub cellar. He used to take cold tea down there to drink. Eventually he caught cold and died of consumption. His wife Mary Ann lived to 1941. In her latter days she was in a nursing home and when in visits, her children would try to smuggle in a bottle of Guinness. Visiting days were nicknamed “Luxury Days”.

Margaret Sophia Gunschmann (1866-1903) is a mystery lady! She had one child – Edwin Gunschmann – born 22nd November 1886 in Mile End Infirmary. There is no father listed on the birth certificate. Edwin died two years later in 1888. Then on 13th August 1894 another child is born – Alfred Charles Milton. His mother is listed on his birth certificate as Margaret Milton formerly Gunschmann and his father as Henry Milton. After extensive research, I am reasonably certain that Henry was Henry Solomon Milton born 4th quarter 1869. IF he was Jewish. Henry was a Carman by trade (a delivery driver). Alfred is listed on the 1901 census living with his grandmother (Mary Ann).

There are Royal Navy seaman’s records for Alfred Milton from the 1st World War; He was 5’ 2” tall with a 36” chest, fair hair, blue eyes and a fair complexion. He lied about his date of birth when he enlisted, saying he was born on 13th August 1893! He enlisted on 16th October 1917. Quite why he changed his date of birth I am not sure as he was old enough. His profession is listed as factory labourer. He was demobbed on 18th December 1919. While in the Navy he married Daisy Manning. They had two children, Winifred in 1920 and Roy in 1929. I have now found marriages for both Winifred and Roy, a child from Roy who I have been in touch with, and four grandchildren!

In the 1901 census Margaret is listed living with George Telling as “wife”, in the same house as Mary Ann (Margaret’s mother) and Alfred Milton. However George Telling was in fact married to Elizabeth Sodo and not Margaret. Actually he’s listed twice in the census and this adds to the spice. George has 8 or 9 children by Elizabeth and is obviously living a double life! Margaret has one child by an unknown father, one by Henry Milton and is now living in sin with a married man – George Telling. Quite a lady! Margaret died of pneumonia in 1903 with the surname Gunschmann implying in fact she was not married at all! In a parallel to her grandfather she died in the workhouse infirmary in St George’s East. She was admitted to the Workhouse Infirmary on June 2nd and died on June 7th 1903. She had not been an inmate of the actual workhouse but had merely used the hospital. Her occupation at death was a charwoman, so her gallivanting was to little avail.

Mary Ann Gunschmann (1872-c1940) is a little confusing. She married Richard Court in 1896 and they probably did not have had children of their own. On the 1901 census they have adopted a daughter Kathleen Nugent aged 2. According to the census she was born in Notting Hill and I can not find a BMD reference to her. It does not appear this was a child of another Gunschmann who passed on the daughter so her story does not rightfully fit in this book.

Alfred Gunschmann (1875-1935) was a tailor from the census in 1901. In the 1891 census he is in the National Industrial Home for Crippled Boys in Kensington, where he learned the trade. His father William is marked as a teacher of music! The home aimed to “board, clothe and educate for future employment destitute, neglected, or ill-used crippled boys between the ages of twelve and eighteen. It was fashionably supported by respectable trustees, and boasted the Earl of Shaftsbury as its president.” I have a great deal of information about this home and the pictures and some of the records can be seen by clicking on the picture to the right here.

He married Mary May Stevenson in 1901 and then married Esther Clark a divorcee in 1927. On this marriage certificate his name is given as “Alfred GUNSMAN properly GUNSCHMANN” – so he, like his brothers, appears to be changing and anglicizing his name. He does not appear to have had children by either wife. He died in Dartford in 1935.

Henry Gunschmann (1877- 1916) was a painter. He married Elizabeth Curtis in 1904 and they had two children. Henry William Stanley Gunschmann born in 1908 and died in 1996 in Exeter. He (Henry William) married aged 50 and had no children. However he is notable in as much as he kept the Gunschmann name and both married and died with it on the certificates.  As far as I can see he was the only member of the family to do so. Ellen Eileen Gunschmann born in 1911 appears not to have married at least in the UK and there is no death record. Her birth certificate records only her mother’s name (Elizabeth Gunschmann formerly Curtis) and for some reason not her father – Henry. This implies there were already problems with the marriage. Henry Senior’s first wife died on 14th February 1916. There was a second marriage and the child from that, Alfred Frederick Leslie Gunsman appears not to have had any children, so this line dies out completely.

Catherina Gunschmann (1879-1941) is last of the notable children of Jacob and my great grandmother. Catherina married William George Peel (1879-1947) in 1899 in Whitechapel. They had four children and lived well and happily. Their story is covered more fully in the section on the Peels.

My father can remember Catherine (his grandmother) and confirms she spoke good English – which is possibly unusual as the community they lived in was almost exclusively German and it was not unusual for people in the community not to speak English at all. My father’s other grandmother lived in London for over 50 years and barely spoke English!

She moved out from the East End of London and died in West Ham in 1941. William was a barman in his early years and later became a drover delivering beer for a brewery on horse drawn carriages. The Peel family itself was an unusual one and has its share of stories, but that’s not for this book. Let it be said though that most of the Peel ancestors are German. There are also a number of sugar bakers in this line of the family and this trade in itself is worthy of much more description but again that’s not for here. Just one relevant tale is that Catherine – like at least 2 of her brothers – was very musical. Although she could not read a note of music, she could play the piano by ear. If she heard any tune she could play it.

Finally Ann Gunschmann (1880-1881) is last of the children. A little confusion surrounds her as she was born Ann, and is on the 1881 census as Ann; however her death certificate is in the name Clara. The age and father’s details on the death certificate agree with the birth of Ann and this all makes me feel this is the same child. For a while I thought there might be twins, but now I just think there was one child and either William got her name wrong on the death certificate or this name Clara was her middle or nick name.

There are only two families that can be easily carried into the next generation and I will concentrate here on one only – with the children of Edward.

Henry Alfred Gunschmann (1896 – 1966)

(known as Harry) was born at 10 Lower Chapman Street, St Georges East on 1st October 1896 and died on 13th September 1966 in Bury St Edmunds. In the First World War he was a private in the Northampton and then the Suffolk Regiment where he was awarded the Victory and the British medals. He was gassed in the war and after that always had problems breathing. I am sure his smoking did not help this either! By profession he was an oil company’s Carman (delivery driver). Later in his life he was a platelayer for the railways. However this was not for the national rail system, it was for the British Sugar Corporation who had a factory in Bury St Edmunds. He must have moved to Bury with his father. He married Frances May Bray (WOO HOO – we’re back in Frances’ story!) in the Registry Office at Bury St Edmunds on 22nd May 1920 (it was Frances’ second marriage).

I have learned that Harry was a short man and always had a short cigarette end hanging out of his mouth which was often not alight! At one time he was making a high fence around a chicken run and he was perched on some boards working on the top. The boards broke and he fell down and got caught up on all sorts of things. His cigarette end fell in the chicken coop and the birds grabbed it and were running around with it looking as they were smoking! his niece laughed and said “Look at the chickens!” Harry’s reply was “**** the chickens, look at me! “

They had 6 children all of whom survived infancy.  I have spoken to one – the youngest daughter and she said she had seen her father’s birth certificate. She told me there was a hole in it where a couple of letters had been cut out. From that time and from the marriage itself, the family was called GUNSMAN.

So let’s now run through the six children Harry and Frances in turn.

Bertie Edwin Gunsman (1920 – 1944)

(known as Harry)– served in the Hertfordshire Regiment in the Second World War. He was killed in service, unmarried, age 23 and was buried in Cassino War Cemetery, Italy.

The CWGC record here says:

Name: GUNSMAN, BERTIE EDWIN
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd Bn. The Hertfordshire Regt.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 12/05/1944
Service No: 5955919
Additional information: Son of Henry A. and Frances M. Gunsman, of Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XII. G. 15.
Cemetery: CASSINO WAR CEMETERY

On 3 September 1943 the Allies invaded the Italian mainland, the invasion coinciding with an armistice made with the Italians who then re-entered the war on the Allied side. Progress through southern Italy was rapid despite stiff resistance, but by the end of October, the Allies were facing the German winter defensive position known as the Gustav Line, which stretched from the river Garigliano in the west to the Sangro in the east. Initial attempts to breach the western end of the line were unsuccessful. Operations in January 1944 landed troops behind the German lines at Anzio, but defences were well organised, and a breakthrough was not actually achieved until 18 May, when Cassino was finally taken. The site for CASSINO WAR CEMETERY was originally selected in January 1944, but the development of the battle during the first five months of that year made it impossible to use it until after the Germans had withdrawn from Cassino. During these early months of 1944, Cassino saw some of the fiercest fighting of the Italian campaign, the town itself and the dominating Monastery Hill proving the most stubborn obstacles encountered in the advance towards Rome. The majority of those buried in the war cemetery died in the battles during these months. There are now 4,271 Commonwealth servicemen of the Second World War buried or commemorated at Cassino War Cemetery. 289 of the burials are unidentified. Within the cemetery stands the CASSINO MEMORIAL which commemorates over 4,000 Commonwealth servicemen who took part in the Italian campaign whose graves are not known

Arthur Gunsman (1922 – 1986)

The second son was Arthur born 28 May 1922 at 5 Vine Fields. He was a cook in the Royal Navy during the 2nd world war, serving on a ship called the HMS Valiant. Latterly he worked as a weighbridge clerk at the local sugar beet factory here in Bury St. Edmunds. He had to retire from this early due to ill health; he suffered with a chest complaint called emphysema exacerbated by years of working in the lime kilns at the sugar beet factory. He died in January 1986.

Douglas Gunsman (1923 – 2004)

The third son of Harry and Frances, Douglas was born in 1923. He was a transport driver and died in September 2004. He married Jane Tuffin and they had 2 children, 4 grandchildren and 2 great-grand children.

Albert Ronald Gunsman (1928 – 2001)

Albert was the 4th son (1928 to 2001) and known as Ronnie and he married Lilly Wallis and they had 2 children and 2 grand children.

Rita Lillian Gunsman (1931 – 2007)

The oldest daughter – Rita – married an American serviceman, Carl Stottlemyer and emigrated with him to New York in 1953 after their marriage. She died this year in Michigan and I have been in touch with both her husband and daughter .

They are a great group of people and it’s nice to see a branch of our family happily settled in the USA. Interestingly enough I have a copy of the original passenger list for Rita when she flew over to America in 1953. This shows that the Pan American flight stopped at 5 places on the way between London and New York. It took almost 24 hours. And we grumble about air travel today!

Finally there is a daughter who did not marry and is alive today living in Bury St Edmunds. She’s a grand lady and was the first on the Gunsman’s in Bury who I contacted. She told me that the whole family was very “mixed” and in fact she had spent more time with Proctors and Brays than with the Gunsman’s. I know she lived for some time with Edna Wade and they were good friends.